reader Q&A

Hi Irene,

I found your blog and it is very interesting!! I recently had a break up with a group of friends. Due to circumstances beyond my control I didn't have much time to spend with them during the spring. Instead of understanding and being happy with weekly dinners or phone calls, they alienated me because I was never free to share a few beers on Fridays or Saturdays. When asked how I had hurt them enough to end a friendship I received nasty lip service that I did not even know these women had in them.

Prior to all of this happening, I was promoted at work and started dating a fantastic guy. Never once in our friendship have I been congratulated on any success I've had. They have never been kind to any men I have dated, and I've always been the first to call and catch-up.

I think due to my age (25) they are extremely immature which has led to cattiness and jealously. Regardless, of my discovery this situation is still very painful. Do you have any suggestions on how to get over this?

Thanks!
Anonymous

ANSWER:

Hi Anonymous,

I'm glad that you stumbled upon my blog and hope that I can give you a few thoughts that may be helpful.

It is always hard to be dumped by a friend but to be dumped by a group is wicked. It reminds me of a scene from Desperate Housewives. It is quite peculiar for grown women to gang up on someone the way these "friends" have on you. It sounds like you've made every effort to stay in contact with your friends even though you have less time available---for good reasons (dating a fantastic guy and getting a promotion at work.)

You have several options:

1) Are you certain that you haven't been flaunting your good luck to friends who are envious of you? It doesn't sound like this is the case but it's always good to step back and think about how you come across to others.

2) Are you sure that you really want to be friends with this group of women? You've characterized them as jealous and catty, and it sounds like they may be more intent on seeing you fail than seeing you succeed.

3) If you are confident that you want to remain friends, here is one strategy to try: Sometimes people show their worst sides in a group---they may be far less willing to act the same way in a one-on-one situation. Take advantage of this. Is there one person to whom you feel closer to than the rest, someone you would feel comfortable approaching and talking to honestly about how badly this situation has made you feel? Or could you develop a relationship with one of the women apart from the group?

4) Another option would simply be watchful waiting: Can you take a breather from this group and see if the problem resolves itself on its own over time? In the meantime, it sounds like you have a full life with work and the guy you are dating. Consider yourself very fortunate. Of course, that doesn't substitute for close female friendships, so try to nurture new friendships with other women.

Finally, don't feel guilty. Friendships often change over time as people grow and mature. You may be entering a new phase in your life; perhaps, it is time to assess these female friendships that you currently have to see if they are still worthwhile pursuing.

I hope you'll let us know how things work out.

My best,
Irene

QUESTION:

Dear Irene,

I am in the middle of a bad friendship and am so grateful to have found this site. Thanks everyone! I am trying to find the courage to "cut down" on the friendship but I am a person who generally will hold things in and then explode. I did this to a friend in high school and still regret it and I never want to shout horrible things at a person again. This is one of the reasons that I have been putting off cutting down or ending this current friendship. But I have been practicing being assertive instead of aggressive and I hope this will help me in this situation.

My friend and I would see each other about twice a year and that was good. We would have fun and then I could get on with my life and spend time with the friends that I had more in common with. But, idiot me, I needed a job and she was able to offer me one. I then felt obligated to go out with her more.

She was recently separated and didn't have that many people to hang out with. I had nothing else really going on so I went. Since she only -- and I really mean only -- talks about herself (I just realized that I can't recall her ever asking anyone "How are you?") I got tired of going out all the time pretty fast. I am a super fantastic listener and do not even need to talk about myself a whole lot to be happy. This post is the most I've "talked" about this situation to anyone. But when you tell someone something and they say "uh-huh, so anyway..." it makes you feel like a doormat.

I have some very nice friends that I would love to spend more time with but I am so exhausted by this friend. I will actually daydream about the "real" conversations that I have with my other friends while this friend is telling me the same story for the tenth time. You remember those "real" conversations where one person says something while the other one listens and then the other person says something while the other person listens - Ah! the good old days!

So why, after a year, am I still a slave to the phone calls and "dropping-ins"? Well, first, I just had to hang out with her when her boyfriend was out of town (She has boundless energy and is easily bored, while I need ten hours [sleep] a night!). I would say to myself, "Okay, he'll be back and it's just one night and she's been going through hell with her ex-husband and needs a friend." But it wouldn't be one night because he would be gone for work for weeks at a time and so I was apparently supposed to be his stand in. At this point it was annoying but tolerable. Looking back (hindsight!!!) I should not have gone out with someone to have a tolerable time.

Now I feel like I missed the chance to get out of this because she is in a worse state than she was before. I kept thinking that she needed me because her ex-husband was making things difficult with child custody and after she got out of this rough patch I could slowly make myself less available. Well, now her boyfriend suddenly dumps her and she is semi-suicidal. I told her that she should consider seeing a therapist and gave her the suicide prevention hotline number. She is still saying things about suicide. Now how am I supposed to tell a suicidal person that they are annoying the crap out of me? Any advice would be greatly appreciated if anyone takes the time to read my ramblings.

Good luck everyone!

Signed,

Trying to find the courage

ANSWER:

Dear "Trying to Find the Courage:"

It sounds like you have gained quite a bit of insight into yourself and your relationships over time. That's good---but now you need to act on that self-knowledge. For some reason, it seems like you have been unable to extricate yourself from a relationship that has felt very draining. Admittedly, the timing now makes your situation more challenging.

As I understand from your note, you may also work with your friend or work for her. This makes it extraordinarily difficult to disengage or cut it off without worrying about its effect on your employment, so perhaps that is another reason holding you back from doing what you know you should do.

It's nice to be helpful and supportive to friends but relationships can't be consistently one-sided; they need to be reciprocal. I'm sorry that your friend is depressed and talks about suicide (as you are). Her threats need to be taken seriously. However, you aren't the person who can help her. It was wise (and appropriate) that you suggested she seek professional help. Do you know any other family members who should be informed and might be able to step up and help her? I think you also need to tell your friend that as much as you care about her and would like to help her, her issues are too complicated for you to handle.

Try to back off gradually and spend more time with other friends. Spending large amounts of time with someone who is very depressed can be depressing. I think you need a little respite from this difficult situation, which will help provide you with more perspective.

Let us know how things go.

Best,
Irene

Dear Irene:

Hi, I have a friend who doesn’t have very good boundaries. I live in a small town. I am a fairly private person who is social but also like my alone time. This friend has stopped by my house when I don't answer the phone and once she comes over, doesn't leave until really late.

I have no idea how to tell her nicely that it is now time for her and her children to leave. I really value our friendship, but she and her children are very intense and I don't want to spend every waking moment with her. I think she would spend all the time with me if she could.

Any advice? I want to be able to get together with her without being with her for the rest of the day. Also, she seems to get irritated with me and think something is wrong when I don't do what she wants or don’t see her for a couple of days.

Signed,

Anonymous

Dear Anonymous,

The most satisfying friendships are built on a foundation of balance and reciprocity. It sounds like your relationship isn’t balanced; your friend covets more of your time and space than is comfortable for you. Yet, you allow her to show up at your home uninvited---and permit her to stay past her welcome. That’s a recipe for a fractured friendship to come!

Sadly, she doesn’t have the sensitivity to sense when you’ve had enough of her or to read your nonverbal cues. In cases like this, you need to be more explicit and tell her something like, “I hope you won’t take offense but it’s getting late and I have an early appointment in the morning” or “I have to get the kids to calm down before bedtime.”

Another tactic might be to schedule your time with your friend so there is a beginning and an end that it is set firm. For example, you might say “I have about four hours before I need to take care of stuff. We’ll have to wrap things up by 2PM” or “Why don’t we meet at the park for an hour or two?”

Acknowledge (to yourself) that you may have boundary issues as well. You need to start to establish ground rules so you don’t wind up feeling angry and abused. Since you really seem to like this friend, it’s worth the risk of explaining how you feel. Tell her that you treasure her friendship but need more alone time for yourself and your family.

Admittedly, I have only heard a little slice of a long story and I suspect your discomfort over this boundary may be just the tip of the iceberg. I suspect that there are other ways in which she is insensitive to your needs and that you feel like you are giving more than you’re getting. Let us know what happens.

My best,

Irene

QUESTION

Dear Irene,

I’ve read many of your posts regarding the breakup of female friendships and I am going thru one myself as we speak. Anna and I met two years ago at graduate school. A little over a year ago, I helped get her a job at my company and we become inseparable. We did everything together from going to dinner, the movies, and jogging at the park. Also, we spent a lot of time texting and instant messaging everyday at work.  

About three months ago, Anna had met a new friend, "Lisa," and I felt replaced. Little by little, I felt pushed aside and believe that Lisa had put a rift in the friendship between Anna and me. All of the sudden, Anna and I spent less and less time together as she made for time for Lisa. The two of them would go bar hopping, swimming, and yoga together...all of the activities that I do not enjoy but Anna likes.

So, one day after I dropped Anna off home from lunch, I texted her saying that maybe we should give our friendship a break because she and I have gotten into many small arguments within the last couple of months. I said that friendship is a two-way street and I was tired of working doing all of the work. So, she texted me back saying, "Fine and take care."

The next day, I felt badly about what I said and texted Anna saying that I was very sorry and hope that she could forgive for the angry outburst. Anna texted back saying, "There is no need for you to be sorry.” She was and had always been a b$$ch to me. She said that I needed a friend that could be there for me constantly, someone to listen to me, and someone to keep me company." Anna said that she feels badly but she cannot be that kind of friend to me and for me to take care. However, she still would like to be a work acquaintance. Nevertheless, this took place over 6 weeks ago and Anna and I have not spoken since. We often avoid each other at the office because things feel so awkward.

I’ve texted Anna several times since then, asking for a face-to-face meeting. I told her that I have and will always continue to value her friendship and would like to work things out with her. Last week, she answered back saying that our friendship just doesn’t work anymore and for me to move on with my life. She said that she has nothing to say to me. 

However, despite her response, I still feel the need to have one last face-to-face meeting. The break-up of our friendship clearly had more to do than just that one text and I want real closure. So, should I try to reach out to Anna one last time or should I just let her go? Seeing her every day at work and not speaking to one another makes it very painful for me.  I still want to reconnect with her and be friends once more.

Marcie 

ANSWER 

Hi Marcie:

What a painful and difficult situation! In addition to losing a close friend with whom you once spent a lot of time, you still have to face her (and her new best friend) at work. That really has to hurt!

You are correct---the friendship didn’t break up solely because of the text message (although texting generally isn’t a good way to handle sensitive discussions, as I’m sure you are now aware). But you were already seeing red flags that something was wrong: You were arguing with each other more and she was choosing to spend her time with Lisa rather than you. If Anna had wanted to, she could have brought you into their circle. She chose not to without any explanation or apology, even when pressed for one.

It’s infuriating when a decision to end a friendship is unilateral---and you aren’t the one who makes the decision. It is natural to feel hurt and angry, and to want some closure. Unfortunately, it looks like Anna isn’t ready to talk or discuss what happened. Anna may be more close-mouthed than you, in general, and have less of an interest in intimate relationships than you do. Whatever the reasons, she has made it clear that she doesn’t want to talk about your split and while you may have been close at one time, given what has happened, it doesn’t appear like you will be able to get over this rift.

You definitely need to back off at this point and involve yourself with other friends at work and outside work. There may be some truth to Anna’s accusation that you are too needy or perhaps you are only too needy for her. You need to dig deep into yourself and think about what you asked of Anna in the past to determine whether you need to set boundaries for your future friendships.

You will be able to achieve closure when you assume control of your circumstances. When you accept that the relationship is over, you’ll feel better about the situation and about yourself. As brutal as it sounds, this isn’t the first time a good friend has been dumped and won’t be the last. You deserve someone who will appreciate your kindness and sincerity, and whose personality and interests are in better balance with yours.

Focus on your work and maintaining a professional demeanor in the office. And try to forget about Anna’s relationship with Lisa: that will probably become history, too. It’s going to take some time but I promise, you will get over this trauma.

Let us know how it goes.

My best,

Irene

Dear Irene,

Someone please help. E-mail me a response. I have a friend that is about to be my sister-in-law; her wedding is in two weeks. She takes and takes and TAKES from me because I can’t say NO!

I’m fed up and don’t know how to tell her. She has me sending out invitations, baking and decorating her cupcakes and the groom’s cake for the wedding, helping her with the music and there’s no telling what else is yet to come. If I try to say NO, she twists it and keeps pressuring me until I give in. Oh, and I’m her maid of honor. We had to pay for our own dresses and my husband had to pay for his shirt---that’s over $100.00 already. I paid to give her a luau shower and I helped out with the bachelorette party.

The last straw was when my husband didn’t pay for his shirt because we spent over $50 (the price of the shirt) on necessities for the cakes...he just wanted to call it even. Now she is calling me, crying and upset trying to get me to pay for the shirt!!!

Signed Megan

________________________________________

Hi Megan:

This is just the beginning of your relationship with your once-friend who morphed into a sister-in-law---so you need to set realistic boundaries for the future about what you feel comfortable doing for her and what you don’t. For example, you shouldn’t feel like you have to spend more money on her than feels comfortable for you or that fits within your budget---no matter what she thinks she deserves or is entitled to. She may think that now that you are relatives, she can ask you for anything and everything.

As time passes, if you keep acquiescing to every favor the Queen of Favors asks of you, as you have seen, she will continue to ask for more. You may need to speak to your brother to give him a heads up and to ask for his help in giving the message to his bride-to-be that you are starting to feel like a patsy. You don’t want to blindside him and create conflict between the newlyweds by taking on his wife without letting him know.

That said, weddings are always times of great angst for brides and their families. I think that now isn't the time to begin to say NO for the first time or to try to change your sister-in-law-to-be. Be gracious until the wedding is over and let her enjoy her special day. Then stick to your guns.

Hope this is helpful.

Best,

Irene

It’s depressing to be with a friend who is truly depressed. You may even get weepy yourself. The black cloud of depression spreads over you too, making you feel like you want to escape and be with anyone else but her. But read this first!

I’ve blogged here repeatedly about the importance of female friendships to women’s emotional and physical well-being---and about the perils of toxic ones as well. I’ve talked about friends who are too needy, too self-centered, too angry, too demanding, or too unreliable and have pointed out that some friendships reach a tipping point when it’s time to call it quits. I still believe that relationships that are consistently draining should be ended or at least, placed on hold.

Then I received a post from a reader entitled, Toxic Friends May Be Crying Out for Help, which reminded me that there are exceptions to every rule---and that it is important to distinguish between a toxic friendship (which is pathological relationship) and depression (which is a mental disorder). Here's the post:

Dear Irene:

Thanks for pointing out that there are bad friends out there, However I want to play devil's advocate here and say that in 2006 when ALL and I do mean ALL 5 of my close friends bailed on me like a chain of dominoes I nearly died from the depression it caused. In the wake of that nightmare I found out I had a mental problem and needed HELP. Your call to DUMP Toxic Friendships would be better served by advocating INTERVENTION for people who may possibly be in serious trouble rather than leaving them behind like trash on the street corner.

Signed,

Anonymous

Yes, there are some cases when close friends need to cut a little slack. Could it be that your friendship feels burdensome and painful because your friend is depressed?

Recognizing depression

Clinical depression is extremely common, affecting nearly one out of ten people in a given year, and it’s is twice as prevalent in women as it is in men. It’s more than a case of the blues or a bad mood that passes. Depression profoundly affects a person’s ability to function. And as hard as someone tries to shake it, it recurs nearly every day, all day, for at least two weeks or longer.

According to the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), the symptoms of depression may include:

• Persistent sad, anxious or “empty” feelings
• Feelings of hopelessness and/or pessimism
• Irritability, restlessness, anxiety
• Feelings of guilt, worthlessness and/or helplessness
• Loss of interest in activities or hobbies once pleasurable, including sex
• Fatigue and decreased energy
• Difficulty concentrating, remembering details and making decisions
• Insomnia, waking up during the night, or excessive sleeping
• Overeating, or appetite loss
• Thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts
• Persistent aches or pains, headaches, cramps or digestive problems that do not ease even with treatment

Does this list of symptoms and signs make you think of one of your friends? Well, this is a reminder. As much as you might like to, you can’t talk a friend out of being depressed. Even a kick in the pants won’t help. Depression is a biological illness.

What you can do

• If you are a good friend, there are some ways in which you can help and possibly make a difference:
• You can listen carefully, provide support, and offer to spend some time doing things you enjoy together (taking a walk or bicycle ride, or going to a movie).
• You can offer to help her with concrete tasks she can’t accomplish on her own because she feels so overwhelmed or has no energy.
• Try to be patient---and never be pushy. Don’t dismiss her feelings. Show that you understand them but encourage her to realize that these feelings are only temporary and will eventually pass.
• Don’t pussyfoot around the issue. Remind her that depression is a treatable illness and encourage your friend to seek treatment.
• If she resists your initial suggestion, try again but don’t nag. Don’t make demands or set ultimatums. Many depressed people need time to find their way to treatment and some people just want to be left alone.
• If you worry that your friend may be harboring suicidal thoughts, you have certain ethical obligations. Be direct and ask her if she feels suicidal. If she does, remind her that she is important to you and that she needs immediate professional help. Never allow the burden of having a depressed friend be yours alone. Be sure to inform someone else (e.g. her partner or closest relative.) If you’re her partner, tell her doctor.

Recognize that you can only be a friend, not a mental health professional. There is just so much that friends can do and so much that they can give. You may need to reluctantly cut loose and be there for her when she begins to recover.

Note: This post is about friendship and isn't intended as medical advice.

This post can also be read on The Huffington Post.

Dear Irene,

I have experienced a catastrophic rift with my friend of over 10 years. "Em" and I met in college, and we've been through lots of life changes since then. Over the years, I've introduced her to all of my friends and she has become a fixture at our social gatherings.

Our relationship began to sour after I met my husband a few years ago. She is resentful that he has "replaced her" and that I am happy in life while she goes through a series of failed relationships and failed jobs. I feel increasingly that I can never do enough to be a good friend to her.

So, after she said some profoundly hurtful things to me, I decided the best thing to do is make more room in my life for my healthy friendships and relationships. The only problem is: I don't know what to do about our mutual friends. I have no intention of telling them to choose sides, because that would be childish. But I fear that she will sabotage those friendships, and I don't know how to go about protecting them while I remove her from my life.

This Thursday, there's a joint birthday party for two mutual friends. We have both RSVP'd. What do I do?

Signed,

Anonymous in Virginia

ANSWER:

Dear Anonymous in Virginia:

Of course, you should go to your friends’ birthday party. You may feel a bit uncomfortable but it won’t be too bad. Just say hello to “Em” and focus your attention where it should be---on the Birthday Girls.

Friendships change as our life circumstances change. If you met your friend ten years ago at college, consider how you’ve changed and grown since then, and all the other changes that have taken place in nearly every other realm of your life. Isn’t it natural that the nature of the friendships you need and enjoy might change as well? As one example, you met “Em” before you met your husband. Prior to that, as two single women, you may have had more in common and therefore, you may have been more patient in catering to her whims and neediness.

Now that you have insight you have no choice but to break lose. Over time, connections between close friends become tangled like vines. Friendships that begin as twosomes extend to relationships between families and groups---and the risk of collateral damage after a breakup is real.

While you may suffer some losses, my hunch is they won’t be significant ones. If “Em” is grating, she probably is just as grating on your mutual friends. (She may even be worse without you as a buffer.) Your true friends will remain your friends.

Forget the hurtful things “Em” said and let go. If anyone at the party asks what happened, say that you drifted apart without going into details. If “Em” goes on to intentionally sabotage your mutual friendships, smart women will see right through her.

Like you, even couples who split---married or not---have legitimate concerns about subsequent fallout. But if you recognize your relationship with “Em” is toxic, you have no choice but to go forward with the split---or at least a friendship sabbatical.

Please get the word “catastrophic” out of your head. Yours is not the first friendship to fracture and yours won’t be the last. The relationship with “Em” was a good one when it was more reciprocal. I know that the change still feels painful but you have lots of supports in your life and things will smooth out over time. Let me know how it goes and thanks for reading my blog.

Sincerely,

Irene

Do you have a question about female friendships that is bothering you? Please write me at Irene@fracturedfriendships.com and I’ll try to answer as many of them as I can.